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In this episode of Serious Insights for Salesforce Admin, host and Salesforce superstar Kristi Campbell welcomes Chris Hopper to the show.
And we’re back! Hello and welcome to Serious Insights, the conversational series where our host, Kristi Campbell, discusses all things Salesforce Admin. In this edition, our CRM MVP is joined by Chris Hopper, also known by his fans as The CRM Recruiter.
Chris is a Houston-based professional recruiter with a focus on matching businesses with Salesforce professionals. Prior to becoming a recruiter, he spent 15 years as a CRM architect, developer, and technical PM. A staple in the Salesforce community, Chris provides our little ecosystem with daily postings on LinkedIn – complete with delightful daily drawings.
In this episode, Kristi and Chris discuss tips and tricks to LinkedIn success (say that 5 times fast). Chris also pulls back the curtain on the talent acquisition process, shares some thoughts about building relationships with recruiters, and explains how to deal with all that spam.
We don’t have the time, money, or resources to actually prove it, but 9 out of 10 LinkedIn users would say “send spam” if you asked them to explain what a recruiter does. There is of course some truth to this – we all have had our inboxes bombarded by unrelated job offers! But as Chris explains, they’re hardly representative of all professional recruiters.
To start, there are two main types of recruiters: internal and external.
Internal recruiters are part of the company that is actively hiring. They are typically used to recruit more traditional, easy to fill roles. Typically internal recruiters will look to fill positions that can apply to a large number of candidates.
Alternatively, external recruiters are hired consultants. Like private investigators, their job is to find the right person – in this case, of course, it's a prospective hire and not who framed Roger Rabbit.
External recruiters are hired to find candidates for more specialized roles. Within the Salesforce community, external recruiters like Chris are looking to fill roles with required and unique skill sets, such as Field Service Lightning, CPQ, and more.
Depending on their approach, either an external or internal recruiter could send mounds of spam. When looking for specific CRM skills, however, Chris notes that the approach is far different. Instead of spam, Chris methodically combs LinkedIn looking for ideal candidates. With a slow and intentional approach, recruiters like Chris match prime prospects with ideal companies.
As Salesforce professionals themselves, expert CRM recruiters also have the technical knowledge to search for, talk with, and identify quality candidates. Where hiring managers may not be able to communicate their explicit needs, external CRM recruiters can identify the exact Salesforce skill sets that a company is looking for.
So what do recruiters like Chris do? He, and those like him, connect with people, create networks, and foster relationships in order to match individuals with new opportunities and businesses with their perfect hire.
When Kristi first tried to dip her toe into the Salesforce world, she did what most professionals do: contact a recruiter. She introduced herself, gave her information, noted her experience and skills, and then waited for a call back. And waited. And waited.
With plenty of experience under their belts now, the hosts both agree there’s much better ways to find a great recruiter than just a cold call. Lucky for us, the two were ready to share:
Looking for a recruiter is different for everyone. Most people don’t even consider a recruiter until they’re ready for a change; the majority of people who are in a job and happy simply do not feel the need to look elsewhere, after all.
As the old saying goes, however, “dig your well before you need it.” No matter the time, it is always great to reach out to a recruiter and introduce yourself, in fact both Kristi and Chris encourage it.
When reacting out to a recruiter, the pair recommend starting with a quick introduction, as well as an explanation of where you are at professionally. If you envision a change in 6-12 months, they recommend sharing where you think your next leap will head towards. As time moves on, stay in contact and continue to build the relationship..
Acting proactively not only catches the eyes of recruiters, but opens up far more opportunities for you. Timing is everything in the hiring process and you never know when a recruiter may have the perfect opportunity for you. Chris cannot highlight enough how many positions he’s filled because it just so happens to be on his desk at the right time.
Needless to say, having a handful of recruiters that you have relationships with is advantageous as well.
A common misconception in the Salesforce community is that the content creators are strictly the experts. The reality is the majority of contributors to the ecosystem, whether blogs or YouTube videos, are normal Salesforce admins. Just like you are always learning, so too is the entire community. Even our MVP host admits there are things that still haven’t hit her radar.
All this to say that you too should be active in the Salesforce ecosystem.
Being a part of the Salesforce community is an organic way to build relationships, as well as network with recruiters. Whether you’re working on something new and need guidance, sharing a project you just completed, or giving your own advice, participation is highly encouraged. Admins can find communities on almost every platform, with ecosystems on platforms like YouTube, Discord, and LinkedIn.
Beyond building the community, interacting with other Salesforce professionals helps you stand out to recruiters. Engagement catches the attention of pros like Chris and shows a desire to grow and learn. In the case that you do need to cold call a recruiter, participation in the Salesforce ecosystem can help build your credibility before you even say a word.
Before we start, both hosts agree that LinkedIn should not be your only mechanism for professional networking and job searches. With that said, all of this advice pertains to LinkedIn.
As a borderline LinkedIn resident, Chris knows what makes a fantastic profile.
First, he notes that a large number of people do not update their current position’s summary. It makes sense, most people don’t feel the need to if they aren’t looking for a job. Still, not keeping your profile up to date directly impacts a recruiter’s ability to find you. Especially for those that plan to shift to the job market soon, Chris recommends keeping your profile current.
Second, a creative headline can be used to catch the attention of recruiters and future contacts. Because LinkedIn auto-populates the field, most professionals have rather generic headlines, so anything catchy immediately stands out. If you’re looking for ideas to create the perfect headline, start with trying to showcase your personality and skills!
Chris also shared insight on how he finds profiles. Using mainly keyword searches, Chris focuses on terms and phrases that directly relate to the positions he is looking for. In his experience, keywords show better skill sets than job titles, especially in the Salesforce community. To be more visible in a sea of professionals, make sure your profile is updated and highlights your specific skill sets. Some examples of keywords include:
While Chris typically works with more experienced Salesforce professionals (a product of his job), he does have recommendations for newcomers looking to break into the industry.
Above all else, both Chris and Kristi both think that the key to getting into the industry is by showcasing your skills. Prospects who differentiate themselves by sharing their projects and work generally gain more attention from recruiters and companies – it doesn’t matter if it is a blog, a YouTube video, or some other message.
As a newcomer to the community, you do not need to showcase Salesforce specific projects. If you have previous projects that display your creativity, communication, and problem-solving skills then you should make sure those are shown on your portfolio, LinkedIn, and other professional platforms. Showing your previous projects not only shows your abilities, but gives off the perception that you have a drive to learn and grow!
Both hosts are careful to warn about overvaluing Salesforce badges and certifications. Because of their wide availability, having these accolades are more of a standard than a differentiator. As a result, even the most decorated newcomers should prioritize showcasing how they can improve a product, solve a problem, and enhance a user experience.
Well aren’t you special getting all those recruiters to reach out to you!
Putting our jealousy aside, we agree that few things are more annoying than a recruitment message completely unrelated to your experience. It’s especially frustrating when the recruiter completely ignores your profile or resume altogether.
So what can you do in response? Ignore the recruiter? Tell them off? Frame them for a crime? Poison their meal?
There is nothing wrong with politely sharing with a recruiter that you are uninterested in a position, especially if the role isn’t related to your skills. Responding kindly to recruiters not only helps them grow as professionals, but can also help cultivate a networking opportunity. Like most other things, Chris recommends being professional and courteous – also please do not frame or poison someone!
Of course, part of the challenge in getting lots of recruiting messages is filtering out the valuable recruiters. Our hosts recommend first checking out their profile. If they’re active in the community and seem to be giving back then they may be worth networking with. Like prospects, recruiters that participate in the Salesforce community show a dedication to growing and fostering relationships.
Above all else, building relationships with recruiters is about finding the right fit.
Well of course!
Chris is proud to help anyone in the Salesforce community. While he will not have positions that fit every person, he offers a wealth of knowledge and guidance. Along with providing resources on his social media feeds, Chris is more than willing to review resumes, host mock interviews, and provide advice for those who ask.
At the end of each episode, Kristi asks her guests to share any noteworthy or entertaining blogs, articles, or resources they’ve stumbled upon lately.
A developer in his past life, Chris recommended Shannon Tran’s developer checklist, which is available on the Salesforce blog. This blog post is an updated and comprehensive overview of the must-dos for any Salesforce developer. In Chris’s mind, this checklist is a fantastic tool for newcomers – as he puts it, it can be used as a “gospel” when developing Apex.
Kristi also recommends Shannon Tran’s post. While she is not a developer, she found that reading the article helped her understand more of the Salesforce community. She also notes that it is great for helping to prepare for Flow’s transition to operating more like Triggers.
For her recommendation, Kristi shared Bob Buzzard’s Year in Review. Just like Tran’s article, this post is developer centric. Along with giving a reflection on the changes in the industry, our host adores the humanity in it – including a caricature of his haircut one year apart.
“Like and share and interact in a meaningful way. Mention others in posts and cause a ripple effect by being present and visible. The more activity you generate the more you’ll appear on others’ radars. This will get you in front of people that didn’t even know you, which is the aim of social networking. Don’t just reply on building a network of people you know—the key to networking is to reach a broader audience. If someone wishes to connect and you don’t know them, simply check out their profile and if they look legitimate (completed profile and photo) then connect.” - Dawn McGruer
Kristi Campbell: Hello, and welcome to Serious Insights for Admins. I'm your host, Kristi Campbell, the senior admin here at Serious Insights. And I'm joined today by the CRM recruiter, Chris Hopper. Hi Chris.
Chris Hopper: Hi Kristi.
Kristi Campbell: And we're going to be jumping into LinkedIn profile tips and working with a recruiter, and just seem like a great way to kick off a new year. So, Chris, can you tell me a little bit about how you got started working in recruiting?
Chris Hopper: Sure. Thank you Kristi for having me on the show today. Chris Hopper, out of Houston. I've been recruiting the Salesforce space for a little bit over five years now. My career is one that's pretty unique for probably most recruiters. I had been into IT, CRM delivery for about 15 years prior to getting into recruiting.
And so, I was previously an architect and a technical PM and a business analyst and a developer doing all things around Siebel CRM for the first 15 years of my career. Was an independent consultant for a number of years and then decided to leave the delivery and get into the recruiting.
I had a friend of mine who ran a recruiting company here in Houston, and he had staffed me on projects. And then he asked me if I wanted to work on CRM and Salesforce, because it was a hot technology and I had the foundational understanding about CRM, and was able to kind of train myself around Salesforce and be able to kind of break into the market, try to build a brand around myself, was able to network back with Accenture, which was one of the companies I worked with for a number of years, and they had given me some Salesforce dev roles to fill and it was very challenging.
And so, I knew there was going to be a lot of opportunity out there for years to come when it came to Salesforce talent, just because of the amount of demand that has grown over the years there, and the scarcity of finding good Salesforce working professionals.
Kristi Campbell: That's awesome. That's a really unique perspective, I think, of understanding truly the roles that you're trying to fill.
Chris Hopper: Right. And I was a career counselor for a number of years at Accenture, part of the role of being a manager there. And so, it really resonated with me to help those that were up and coming and trying to figure out their career path and having meaningful conversations with them about what they can do to help them make themselves achieve certain goals and more marketable in the job scene.
And so, that's another way that I'm able to give back as a recruiter, not just direct placement for clients, but also helping the newcomers figure out their path and their walk of their Salesforce careers and review resumes, maybe do mock interviews and help them connect with others just to help them make it a little bit more successful than they can be.
Kristi Campbell: Yeah. That's a great point. One of the things I really enjoy about you is your LinkedIn feed. I think you do a lot of great work to get people thinking and promote content instead of kind of just barfing offers into LinkedIn messages, which I feel like is a lot of what I get, especially after you get a certification or you've got certain milestones.
For me, becoming MVP really increased, not the relationships, but just kind of the offers coming in from left field, from things that don't really actually apply to what I do. So you mentioned kind of both. So do you have any recommendations about finding the right recruiter or at what step in your journey you should be looking to work with a recruiter?
Chris Hopper: Yeah. And it's different for everybody. A lot of people, if they have a position and they're happy, they probably feel like there's no sense of really building relationships with recruiters because there's no need to do that at that time. But there's an old saying that says dig your well before you need it, when it comes to building relationships and having relationships with recruiters or hiring managers or those in the ecosystem.
And so, it's always good to say, "Hey Chris, I'm not looking right now, but here's where I'm currently at. Six months or 12 months down the road, let's have a conversation because I think I'm going to be looking for something different. I don't really see my career going the right direction, long term here."
And having those checkpoints with the recruiters, because you never know, they could have an opportunity that's sitting on their desk waiting to be filled. And it's a lot about timing, being in the right place at the right time.
I've been able to fill positions and getting people to a better salary, to a better position, to better skills to be able to grow their career because they had pinged me and I just happened to have a position that was a perfect fit for them that came across my desk three or four days prior to that.
And so, I know we're all busy with the day to day jobs and personal lives and all that, but I think if you can have a handful of recruiters that's in your back pocket that you can rely on and build relationships with over the long run, I think you'll see that's advantageous for you long term.
Kristi Campbell: I think it's interesting. I remember when I was getting started and decided to fully move into a Salesforce role and I kind of sent my information to recruiter, had an initial conversation and almost thought that was the end of it, thought I was in and I was going to just get a role.
Looking back now, I can kind of see the difference between internal recruiters that are filling more of your typical roles, where I think more often when companies are reaching out to someone like you, it's for something more specific or something that's more difficult for them to fill themselves. Is that right?
Chris Hopper: That's exactly right. And then I try to tell that to the newcomers because they see my title as being a recruiter that I can help everybody and anyone. And unfortunately, I wish it worked that way, but it doesn't. We're an expense to a company. And then typically, companies don't come to external recruiters unless they have to.
So they have their internal talent acquisition department, they may have their internal HR. They may have the hiring managers, themselves, doing the recruiting for the company. Typically, the only time they're going to come to me for help is if they've been searching for months on end, haven't had any success. They posted a LinkedIn, they posted various job boards, they put it on Indeed and nothing's coming back that has a close enough match for them to make that higher, then that's when I get pulled in and happy to utilize my time and energy to be able to find somebody that they can't find.
And it's interesting within Salesforce space because there's a lot of open opportunities right now. But there's still these unique skillsets, whether you're talking about field service lightning or CPQ or the technical architects, or sometimes the senior admin to have specific products that are in the org that they want to have someone had experience on and not everyone has that.
And so, it's up to me to go through the trenches, have conversations, look at LinkedIn profiles, review resumes, and hopefully find something that's a lot closer to what they're looking for versus what they're finding on their own.
Kristi Campbell: Yeah. I think it's interesting too, to remember that those hiring managers that aren't focused solely on Salesforce or primarily on Salesforce day to day, I think it's a good reminder to question some of the things that might be in those postings.
I read somewhere about women won't apply for a job if they don't meet 100% of the criteria versus men kind of have more of a, "Sure, I can figure that out" kind of attitude, which I think it's good to keep in mind, they may not know these words that they're asking you about, even in an interview, can you build flows? They're trying to check some boxes that may have been communicated and may not fully understand exactly what they're asking about until you get into the more technical conversations later on in the interview.
Chris Hopper: Right. And that's another point that the recruiter can be a value add piece for the puzzle, because if I have a conversation with a hiring manager or internal talent acquisition or HR, and they give me the scenarios about what they're looking for, I know enough about the technology to be able to go into that extra degree of specification and technical Q&A with a candidate to make sure they have the skillset that their client is looking for versus just having keyword searches.
A lot of times that's all that matters when it comes to sourcing resumes. But when you're using an external recruiter, there should be another level of value added service that comes with that. And usually, I provide a brief summary about why I think this candidate is a particular fit based on this logical conversation I had about their experience and about the Apex supers that they've built or the flows that they've built, or whatever the case may be to help show exactly why this person's qualified.
Kristi Campbell: That's great. And I'm assuming too, sometimes people are coming to you fill roles and are looking for an admin that has written triggers, or kind of helping to right size some of those expectations around what those skills really should be at different levels.
Chris Hopper: Yeah. I get pulled in for more of just consultation, just case of where I've been and been a consultant. And so, I'm able to take those soft skills and apply those to the recruiting space and whether it's about salary conversations around skillset, around industries, whatever the case may be, I enjoy having those conversations with clients or even not clients, just random people that find me on LinkedIn, just talk to a little bit more about the Salesforce space and how to help them fill positions because maybe their job description is too generic. And I say, "Well, I'm going to give you a little bit of insight that it may take you three, six, nine months to fill that position the way that you've written it. Maybe you want to make some of these as nice to haves versus must haves to hopefully get some additional traction on this."
Kristi Campbell: Interesting. So you mentioned that primarily from the sourcing side, you're working with more advanced kind of placement levels because that's what companies bring in a recruiter for. In terms of the new people that do reach out to you, what recommendations do you have for them to make them seem attractive to those hiring managers?
Chris Hopper: Yeah. I'm a big fan. I've preached on this for years about showcasing your work and showcasing your skills, because certifications and badges can only get you so far. And so when everyone else has the admin cert or the Platform App Builder cert and are Trailhead Rangers, then the bar is set at the same level for everybody.
Where you differentiate yourself is being able to build custom apps on the dev platform and be able to showcase that, whether that's writing an article about it, doing some YouTube videos, things to be creative, because those are things that are very unique to your analytical and creativity skills that are going to differentiate you versus a standard certification or badges, things that everybody has access to doesn't show any kind of differentiation.
And there's been plenty of success stories around this, that people that have been able to showcase their work and build some specific apps that may pertain to their personal life or maybe their current position somewhere else, not doing Salesforce or maybe something else that they were doing in the past, then they apply standard Salesforce principles to building custom apps. And being able to showcase that, it shows that you're willing to put yourself on the line, be a little bit uncomfortable with your abilities. And I think a lot of employers want to see that in somebody.
Kristi Campbell: Yeah. I definitely think the ability to add badges directly to your LinkedIn from Trailhead is a mixed bag. I feel like when it first started and there was only a handful, it was a little more early adopter. But now, I think it's so prevalent that focusing on super badges or projects kind of some more involved things can be helpful, but you want to make sure that there's not too much noise.
But I agree, I definitely think that showing, especially because you can get a dev org, you can build an experience cloud community so that you could walk through something with someone on an interview or link them to a site to engage with something that you've done. I know Trailhead is great about providing examples and guiding you through those processes.
But I agree too, that whether it's something in your personal life or from your current role or your last role, how could you have built something that would make it better? And being able to talk through that, I think not only showcases your Salesforce skills, but also your commitment to trying to enhance user experience and those soft skills that you want in your admin in terms of taking requirements from yourself and building something that you can show to someone, I think is really helpful.
Chris Hopper: Exactly. And I think a lot of times we just have resistance, we don't think it's very meaningful. But before I got into recruiting, when I was a hiring manager, those that brought something other than their pretty face in a resume, usually got to the top of the pecking order when it came to making a decision because they had either written documentation they brought with them or they had something on a [inaudible 00:13:54] to show us.
It was a different way to start a conversation and just show your true self, other than just talking about just job experiences and your resume and certifications. It just gives you another flavor to bring the table that brings a little personality to the game.
Kristi Campbell: Yeah. And I think it's interesting. I think the perception is that it's the experienced people that are writing the blogs and doing YouTube, but really there's always someone that's less knowledgeable than you. You started last week, they started today.
So I definitely think that the learning journey and figuring certain things out, even for me, there's new features that have come out that just haven't come on my radar. So if you're working through something new like restriction rules or something that's newer, that's still valuable and interesting, even though you may not consider yourself an authority.
Chris Hopper: Exactly. I mean, if you just think about, if I can get one person to appreciate this, that should be enough for you to want to do it, a way of giving back and getting notified and getting noticed in the ecosystem. I mean, I post every day, it's become a habit for me to do it. And I've been adding sketches and drawings just to make things a little bit unique.
And at the end of the day, it's like, hopefully at least one person resonates with this particular post for the day, because that's what it was for. And not intended for all those naysayers who don't care about it, who just scroll past it and didn't resonate with them, that's fine. Today's message wasn't for them, it was for those that appreciated it. And so, that's kind of just a mental piece that I've been able to come to terms with.
But I think the same thing that what I do, and by no means, am I an artist and can draw very well, but I'm working on it and hopefully I'll get better over time. That same thought process is what I'd like to try to also show to the community that they can do the same thing on their apps or whatever they want to do that maybe they have a lower resistance around or not sure how good it's going to be.
But as you do it more, you build up some momentum behind you and you build up some more skills and then eventually, you'll find that you'll end up landing a position that you're shooting for.
Kristi Campbell: And I think so much of what I remember about taking my first admin cert, which has been a few number of years, but I had been in admin for a little while since then. I went back to, "When I did this thing, did I get an error? How did I end up having to do that right?" So there's, to me, just getting in and building those things can help reinforce the things that you're book learning, that you may be experiencing, which again then translates to what you're going to be doing in the role, right?
Chris Hopper: Exactly. And the one thing that I just told someone yesterday, if you're working on a pro bono project or doing some volunteer work, at the end of the week debrief with yourself about the things that you worked on, because you need to be able to take those things and be able to add it to your resume, add it to your LinkedIn profile.
I think so much of the time we're so busy doing that we don't spend enough time reflecting. And to be able to reflect on those things, because those are the things that you've done well and you've shown value, why not be able to take that stuff that you've done and be able to translate it on paper or your LinkedIn profile, maybe even post about it, to be able to show others your capabilities.
Kristi Campbell: It's really interesting. I remember back in the day when I printed out some pages of little sections of things to remind my... that I had a phone interview, that I got to spread them on the desk and was referencing stuff about myself, which seems awkward, but you don't necessarily remember the project on the fly or the challenge. I run into things I've done in org I don't remember doing, so.
Chris Hopper: Yeah, exactly. And even if you have a list of questions that you want to ask at the end, I mean, showing that you prepared and you've done your research and you reviewed the company, you had some questions, big deal, you're looking at your notes. I mean, at least you have some notes with you and you happen to showcase versus just trying to remember it all in your head, which doesn't really... I carry a notepad everywhere I go. I think that's just the way that my mind works and I don't care if it's old fashioned or not, but it works for me and I think it worked for anyone else as well.
Kristi Campbell: So you mentioned the keywords as a kind of a thing. Do you have any quick recommendations based on the tools that recruiters can use on LinkedIn specifically to kind of differentiate, I know we mentioned that you shouldn't use LinkedIn as your only differentiation mechanism, but to kind of make your profile stand out?
Chris Hopper: Stand out. Yeah. One thing that I'm seeing on profiles is if you're currently working, a lot of times, you don't have your summary about the work that you're doing in your current position. You have summaries that you've made in the past for past positions, but let's say you've been somewhere for six, 12, 18 months, and that's just blank. And you just have the position listed and not any of the responsibilities that you're doing.
If you're going in the job market soon, you might want to go ahead and start updating that part of the job responsibility that you currently have. And sometimes we just forget about it, because we're currently on the position and we just don't update our profiles since the last time we landed a new role. But something to think about is also adding... keeping it up to date, I guess, to my point on your LinkedIn profile.
As far as keyword searches, I think a lot of it's very bullet point as far as what we have on our side, the LinkedIn recruiter tool that I use, where we can search by location; if it's full time or contract, how many years of experience. I don't always use titles anymore because a lot of people may not have Salesforce admin as their job title, they could be called a thousand other things. So what I'll do is usually leave the title blank in my search and just do keyword searches.
And so, whether it's round flows or reports or validation rules, or Apex and triggers and REST, things like that, that's usually where I'm zoning in on, because I think I'll get a better pull back as far as candidates that have a skillset that I'm looking for and may just not have a title match that necessarily this new company that I'm working with matches the particular candidate because they're titled something totally different.
Kristi Campbell: And that is looking at keywords in job descriptions of the history of jobs that you've had?
Chris Hopper: Yes. So what that does is a LinkedIn recruiter, if I do a keyword search is going through all your profile basically, and looking for to see if you have those skills listed either in your summary section or under each of the job descriptions that you've worked at, or even on your skill section, of your skills and endorsement section. Any of those areas, it looks for that keyword search. And when the profiles come back to me, each profile I look at, it highlights where those keywords are located within an individual's profile.
Kristi Campbell: Interesting. I also, I think personally, the headline to me is underutilized because it can auto populate. Just like in Salesforce, when something auto populates it's easier to ignore. I think changing that up a little bit to give it some personality, I think can be, especially if you're looking at a list of people and kind of that's the first thing that you see. I think that can be a-
Chris Hopper: For sure. I like the headlines, I like the creativity. I see very unique summaries as well, because technologists get inundated by recruiters quite often. And a lot of recruiters don't look at the full profile of somebody. And a lot of times I'm sure you've seen this and many others have, is getting pitched a position that has nothing to do with your background.
And I saw one guy's profile, he was a developer. He had a pretty long diatribe as far as his summary goes. And the last line says, if you read this far and you can write down... in your reach out to me say monkeys like bananas, then I know that you've read my profile and then I'll respond back to you. And so it's just a unique way for him to make sure that if he doesn't see that in someone that reached out to him, he knows that recruiters are just generically spamming him with job descriptions or job positions that aren't really applicable to his skillset.
I'm a little bit different, I don't go for the masses. I try to spend a lot of time on the profiles and making sure that's a pretty close fit to what I'm looking for. And then even when I reach out to somebody, I can say, "Hey, Kristi, I'm not sure if this is a good fit for you. I think it is based on my analysis of your LinkedIn profile and the job description. What do you think?"
I try not to make any false assumptions when I reach out to people that are actively looking, because sometimes your profile may be a little bit not as transparent to me and maybe I can't pull out what exactly what I'm looking for. So I'll go back to an individual to ask them if they meet these particular skillsets, just to make sure we're on the same page.
Kristi Campbell: That's a good point too. I think the volume piece, I think there's nothing wrong with saying, "No, thank you." You're not interested. Or saying, "That doesn't really apply to what I'm looking for." Giving that feedback, I think is... having some grace, I think from the recruiter side of like, hopefully they're trying their best.
Chris Hopper: Yeah. And I can say, "I understand, Kristi, thanks for letting me know. If you don't mind telling me what a good fit looks like, then maybe something will come across my desk in the near future that I can present to you that's a better fit." I always try to keep the dialogue open a little bit, if I feel like there's the ability to help somebody who's willing to help me help them so to speak.
Sometimes I get ignored or sometimes it's a done deal and they close the conversation, which is fine too. That's just part of the process when it comes to recruiting. But I think if you're a job candidate and someone reaches out to you and you look at their recruiters profile, this is something I also advocate for is to look at the recruits profile.
They seem active, do they seem like they're giving back? Do they seem like they're a contributor to the ecosystem? Is it someone that you think would be worth your time to form a small relationship with and have a conversation with?
If so, then maybe you want to say, "Hey Chris, sorry, this position isn't a good fit for me, but here is what I'm looking for instead." If you feel like you're getting spammed and they're ticking you off because of how bad the reach out was to you, then maybe you don't want to waste your time. But I think there's other situations that may be worth it long term.
Kristi Campbell: Yeah. Good. Circle back, have a few recruiter connections in your pocket so that you are prepared. You can't just do the networking when it's time to get a new job, you've got to kind of build the foundation.
Chris Hopper: That's right. And LinkedIn and Twitter, and the social network gives you the opportunity to do that. I'm not saying you got to be so insane about it and post three times a day, or even daily like me. But every once in a while, a few times a month maybe, just get out there and like some people's posts or post something of yourself, just to kind of say active, I guess, instead of just waiting until two, three years go by and say, "Hey, everybody, I'm looking for a new position. Can you help me?" You really haven't-
Kristi Campbell: Credibility.
Chris Hopper: I don't want to say earn, because that's kind of being mean about it, but you got to have to give a little bit to get a little.
Kristi Campbell: Right. And I think that goes back to the kind of personal branding conversations around building yourself up as a helper, a sharer versus just coming in when you need money.
Chris Hopper: Yeah. And then sometimes that's how we get looked down on recruiters as well, because at the end of the day, we're in sales. Recruiting is a sales position and that my mission over the last five plus years is to try to remove the bad juju that's around sales, because a lot of people don't appreciate sales and recruiting especially, especially when they get spammed and it's a waste of their time.
And so, I can just do what I can do that I can think of, from a creative side, to be able to show that not all recruiters are bad, not all of them are sales and just commission driven. At the end of the day, it's about trying to figure out ways to help those that are looking for help.
Kristi Campbell: I like it. And again, I love that you are sharing content and really staying in touch with the Salesforce pools I shall say, which brings me to our Adminute segment. Obviously not as an admin, but when you're taking a minute for yourself to keep up with what's going on with Salesforce, have you read something or seen something interesting recently that you would recommend?
Chris Hopper: Well, I just read that Shannon Tran post of the developer checklist. I think it was last week about best practices really. I bookmarked that. I think that is a great up to date checklist around development, because I used to be a developer. So I still try to follow Apex and understand the most I can about LWC and what evolving around Salesforce technology. And the post that she made, she's an architect for Salesforce.
And that checklist was I think, a great, especially for those who are newcomers to be able to use as kind of the gospel for them when they're developing Apex to go by and utilize and make sure they're developing the best passage that they can.
Apex Hours, we all know Apex Hours. I've been a creator there before. They constantly put on good work from the community there. Automation Hour is another good one. I think all the Salesforce Bins, weekly articles as well. There's so much diligent information out there.
The thing that I also advise with newcomers is you got to make sure you spend your time wisely. At the end of the day, if all you're doing is consuming information, it can be a little overwhelming and then I think it can cause your head to spend and not sure what direction to go in, especially when you're looking for a new position that I think you need to zone in and really those core admin skills, especially for the newcomer admins that are trying to get the front the door.
So those are the things that you should focus on and not worry about some of these bells and whistles that Salesforce puts out in their seasonal releases and all these other things that are being talked about because it can cause your mind to get distracted and not allow you to focus on things that you need to focus on.
Kristi Campbell: Yeah. It's an interesting piece too, that I'm not a developer, but iCloud admin, but in reading Shannon's post on the Salesforce blog, it's interesting to just see the other side of what people are doing and what developers are thinking of and have some grace when you're working on projects. And as we start getting further and further into flow, kind of operating like triggers, things that you want to think about with [inaudible 00:29:21] and all those kinds of things.
Chris Hopper: That's exactly right. I mean, that's a great point, Kristi. As far as some of the things that Shannon about can be applied, at least the thinking can be applied to declarative side of the house as well. Having someone peer review your flow, for example, and making sure you write your variables and things like that.
Because a lot of things that don't let... because it has Apex around it or has code around the topic of it, don't think that some of these principles and core foundational areas can't be applied to the declarative because I think for sure they can be.
Kristi Campbell: Yeah. For me, I caught up on the Bob BuzzerBlog with [inaudible 00:30:00] blog. He did a year interview and it's just nice to look back at. He's in London. So talking about London's calling and some of their developer user group meetings there, but just seeing kind of the different topics and he posts a lot about again, developer topics, but things that can kind of be so interesting.
So I enjoyed reading about his year and finally getting a haircut after months of quarantine and... Yeah, so that was my admin of this week. Thank you so much for joining us and helping us get started on a new year. Someone's looking to work with a recruiter or looking for a new role or really just spice up their own LinkedIn maybe and finding their identity in the Salesforce space. I appreciate you coming on.
Chris Hopper: Yeah. Thank you Kristi for having me. It's been a pleasure talking about this, really something that's near and dear to my heart. For any of those that are interested, you can connect with me at LinkedIn, by all means, I look forward to making those connection requests and I can help you review your resume, do a mock interview, look at LinkedIn profile, talk about positions, talk about situations that you've been in.
Just had someone reach out to me yesterday. They have a position that they were offered and now it's stalled and they're not sure if they should go in a different direction and look for another offer somewhere else or continue to wait for this company to get back to them. So those are kind of situations that I get run into and they just ask for my opinion if they're doing the right thing.
And a lot of times I think if we just have an opportunity to vent out our frustrations or some of the stuff we're working on, it makes us feel better at the end of the day. So by all means, I'm an open door, love to have those conversations if you need someone to turn to.
Kristi Campbell: That's wonderful. Thank you so much.
Chris Hopper: Great. Thank you Kristi.